THE QEA: READ -> VOTE -> DISCUSS!

[Jesus]

Every view expressed in the following statement is not necessarily the view of QHF.

The Quaboag Educators' Association is a union of teachers that fights for the interests of teachers.

I believe that teachers ought to be paid more. The state's method of determining this goes:

Teachers do good job -> kids get good MCAS scores -> teachers get higher salaries

We have the lowest teacher salaries in Worcester County.

The QEA has decided that to get better wages, through a contract re-negotiation, they simply shouldn't try as hard. This has meant not doing work outside the confines of their contract, such as working after 2:13, meaning writing letters of recommendation. So many seniors, dependent on this to get into college, are left high and dry. The QEA's plan goes:

Teachers do sub-par job -> Students Complain to parents -> parents complain to school board -> school board concedes to contract re-negotiations -> teachers do their job better -> quaboag students get better MCAS scores

Personally, I don't know if any Quaboag teachers have refused to write letters of recommendation, but I do know that teachers under the same circumstances in ware did the same thing. It should be expected that this method will yield the same results, the students bearing the brunt of the abuse.

As always, teachers may try to spread their liberal agenda (I apologize) to their students. How can they claim that it is in your best interest? If an EMT wants a pay raise they don't stop giving CPR.

It is important to note that some teachers have note fallen into line and will not be cutting back on their effort, they deserve raises.

Also noteworthy: The state requires a student complete 180 6 hour days. Nothing after 2:13 is in my contract either. If a teacher denies you a letter of recommendation yet assigns you homework what does that say to you? Is your time less valuable than theirs?

It is bad enough that quaboag doesn't allow hats because of "gangs" and "good manners" but a dollar erases all that. It is bad enough that teachers demand you be in the class by the bell but the same bell does not dismiss you. It is bad enough that I have to pay to play sports, park at the school, etc and that money helped buy speed bumps when there weren't enough books for everyone in my class.

This QEA strategy of effing the students over crosses the line between a personal annoyance to injustice.

It is not Mr. Collins' house. Our parents built it, pay for everything in it, pay the teachers, pay Mr. Collins. I should be able to wear a hat, I should be dismissed by the bell system my dad helped pay for and I should have books before the teachers get pay increases. Above all else, I should get an education that can get me into a college. This pisses me off to no end.

[QED]

Against my better judgement, I will allow this thread to continue. Be warned, however, that this thread will be VERY closely monitored. If you have not read the forum rules board, do not even think about posting here. If things get out of hand, this thread will be deleted.

Keep this an honest discussion on the merits of teacher unionization and school policy. Play nice.

-QED

[No friction dancing.]

"If an EMT wants a pay raise they don't stop giving CPR."

You bring up a valid point. And why is it that all our lives we've been taught that if you have a problem, you're supposed to sit down and talk things out, and come up with a solution? But instead of leading by example, everyone is just bickering.

"It is bad enough that quaboag doesn't allow hats because of "gangs" and "good manners" but a dollar erases all that."

Let me ask you a question. Do you live next door to a sports shop? If not, where do you get the balls? The money that is being raised by wearing hats is being put back into the school. You complained earlier that there were speed bumps instead of books. We're raising money so we can get stuff in the school, like microwaves. And where did you get the idea that we don't wear hats because of gangs? Because we all know that gangs are a big problem around here... All jokes aside, wearing hats in school is pretty disrespectful, actually. If the school system forces you to have some class, all the better.

[No friction dancing.]

Do you people even know about what the QEA is looking to get? A pay raise is only part of it. They're also fighting against having random drug tests and stuff like that. All of that stuff goes into the contract. As a Libertarian, I can't imagine that you're in favor of stuff like that. Check the facts before you make a statement.

[bs060306]

I understand that the QEA is having serious problems with the school board, but how is the action of wearing pins, the audience of which is students, going to help to fix the problem? By wearing the pins for all students so see, teachers are only making the problem worse. Students are asking teachers why they're wearing the pins, and teachers either beat around the bush or say too much. "QEA Unity" = a school divided.

I don't appreciate that teachers are showcasing the conflict to students, but then are hiding the issue. The issue should not be affecting students, but it obviously is. The students should either be told what's going on, or the teachers need to stop bringing the issue in to the school. As far as teachers not doing rec. letters becuse of the conflict, they are not explicitly saying that they are refusing to write letters, but when a teachers takes a month to do a letter or simply does not do one at all, a student aware of the QEA conflict is going to think that the teacher is avoiding the rec. letter on purpose.

Would the teachers rather that the information, possible false information, leak out via overheard conversations and rumors, or would they prefer to just let everyone know what's going on?

[No friction dancing.]

We should have a schoolwide meeting to talk about the whole thing, don't you think? That way the teachers and the administration can tell everybody what is going on. If kids don't know what QEA is, and they don't know why the teachers are wearing pins, there's a lack of communication somewhere. Have a discussion, and let the students ask questions. I bet that there's a lot of people who have questions/thoughts/concerns about the whole deal, especially stuff that affects them, like letters of recommendation. If all you all support the idea of having a schoolwide meeting/discussion, I can probably do it up, with the help of the class officers and everybody...

[bs060306]

A schoolwide meeting sounds like a great idea. I think that Ms.Bacon is president of the QEA, maybe she should be the first one you talk to?

[Jesus]

whoa, i haven't read this in a while. Let me clarify. I support the QEA's causes. The example one of salary is just an example. I do, however, disagree with their methods.

On your other point:
If you ask a member of the faculty why we can't have hats they respond with either "manners" or "gangs" In all fairness, I should have addressed the manners issue as well. I hate the fact that no one can explain why it is bad manners, it just is. Since when does that explanation justify anything? People can't wear hats because its a long standing tradition? You know what else people have been doing for a while? Smoking. The whole notion of it is ridiculous.
I'll put my commentary in CAPS.

"Let me ask you a question. Do you live next door to a sports shop? If not, where do you get the balls? IN A FEW LINES YOU TALK ABOUT CLASS, HOW IRONIC. The money that is being raised by wearing hats is being put back into the school. You complained earlier that there were speed bumps instead of books. We're raising money so we can get stuff in the school, like microwaves. OH SO THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS. NOW I SEE THAT CIVIL LIBERTY ISN'T IMPORTANT WHEN THE SCHOOL GETS MONEY. And where did you get the idea that we don't wear hats because of gangs? Because we all know that gangs are a big problem around here... All jokes aside ADDRESSED THIS ALREADY, wearing hats in school is pretty disrespectful, actually. IF YOU BELIEVE THIS HOW CAN YOU SELL OUT FOR A DOLLAR? If the school system forces you to have some class, all the better. YES, LETS HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DEFINE WHAT IS GOOD MANNERS, WHAT IS RIGHT, WHAT IS CLASS. THATS A GRAND IDEA."

Heres something to use besides hegemony, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrite

[No friction dancing.]

Let me just address the whole hats in school issue.

"A hat should be taken off when you greet a lady and left off for the rest of your life. Nothing looks more stupid than a hat." ~PJ O'Rourke

You're taking a simple thing and making it way too complex. You would fight for liberties, like wearing a hat in school. Then if you could wear a hat in school, you wouldn't want to. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you would step out into the real world for a couple of minutes, you would realize that the end usually does justify the means. As far as me being a hypocrite, that's just another of your idealistic views. It is disrespectful to wear hats in school, but if you've ever noticed before, I wear hats in school. There are some things that are more important than others, and in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that wearing a hat is that big of a deal, and I don't think it's really that disrespectful.

Also, you need to learn when I'm kidding and when I'm serious. I don't really think that the government should legislate morality, I don't really care if the rainforest gets burned or not, and I don't really want to curbstomp the Aztecs.

And don't talk to me about class. That could be a whole separate thread.

[Jesus]

Whoa, first off I know you don't want to curbstomp aztecs etc. Its not exactly hard to tell.

Second, I didn't ever want to wear a hat, I simply want the right to. I hate wearing a hat. I think you are missing the greater point. Its not the cause I object to, its the method. I'd love to give teachers pay raises and give money to the school, but I'd rather just do it, than complicate it.

How can you say the end justifys the means, Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave.

Who made PJ O'Rouke the Czar? In america, espicially in a building my dad purchased, I have the right to wear a hat. Its not an argument for the sake of it, its about a principal. It sets a precedent for future situations. Saying that I'd fight against liberties just for the fun of it is just ignorant. I am for all liberties that don't adversely affect me.

I said that saying that it simply "is" isn't good enough. You said "It is disrespectful to wear hats in school."
You later said it wasn't very disrespectful in the grand scheme of things, so then you must agree with me that it is retarded to have to pay to wear one. One might argue that swearing isn't very disrespectful and let me pay 5 dollars every tuesday to tell Mr Gould to eat [Admin! Please ban me for my foul mouth!]. Who determines what is disrespectful. To quote the man himself "you cannot legislate morality"

You also implied that I don't live in the real world. I'd resent that if anyone but you said it.

I am brought back to your other post, about random drug tests, libertarianism and doing research.
1. when i register to vote I will be an independent.
2. Libertarianism, which I am very fond of, supports an organizations right to screen employees. A libertarian would say that if you don't like it, get another job.

What makes you so classy? What a pompus self image.

Finally, this thread is getting closed. QED said, "Keep this an honest discussion on the merits of teacher unionization and school policy. Play nice." My hat digression was used to hijack this thread.

[QED]

I step away for a weekend and everthing goes to h311 (have to bypass language filter, not trying to be 1337). Everyone's had a full day to cool off, so let's just move this discussion to the new thread started by Advertar.

JHDC, you made a good call in closing this just for the moment, it has gotten somewhat off-topic. I will copy all of the relevant posts over to the new thread. Please use that thread from here on out.

If anyone wishes to continue the discussion on hats, feel free to start a new thread, but it had better be a little less confrontational.

Let's be a little more civilized this time, I think talking about the QEA a healthy debate that should be had, and I'd hate to have to close it.

-QED

P.S. If I see ANY trolling or derrogatory remarks, I will BAN you.

P.P.S. troll, v.- to post intentionally inflamatory statements intended to boost post count, cause others to post angry, off-topic replies, and/or gain attention. In other words, no ad hominem arguments.

P.P.P.S. ad hominem- attacking the speaker instead of the case presented by a speaker