Student Government Debate

[QED]

I have seen that there is a debate growing in a different thread, so I decided to make a thread for it here so the original thread can stay on-topic. I have reposted the messages from the first thread below.

[QED]

Advertar
Student Council Officer
-----------------------------------
You need to give students a voice. I think that people have questions/thoughts/concerns, but that they aren't being heard. They can go to their class officers, but class officers are trying to raise money and plan fundraisers, so they can't necessarily address student's concerns. If an idea gets enough support in the forums, then you should bring it to the administration, no matter how stupid or impractical the idea is.

---

bonoismygawd
Class Officer
-----------------------------------

They can go to their class officers, but class officers are trying to raise money and plan fundraisers, so they can't necessarily address student's concerns.

..i'm offended...whats that supposed to mean? that i like pies over peers? is that what youre getting at?

jeeez...lol...

---

Advertar
Student Council Officer
-----------------------------------
Let me just lay all the cards down on the table, and say what's what. I'm probably going to offend a lot of people with this, so I'm just going to have to say that it's nothing personal to any individual class officer. I don't have a problem with you as people, I just have a problem with the whole concept of class officers.

The whole reason they have class officers is so that they can plan for prom. That's all class officers do. Their job is to raise money, and then spend that money on class trips and class events. I know that you all do fundraisers, and run dances, and everything else. But your ultimate goal is just to make money for your class to spend on your own class. You wouldn't be running these events if it meant that you were probably going to lose money or not get anything out of it for the class.

Again, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. All I'm saying is that that's the job of class officers, and that's what they do. I welcome any differences of opinion. Let's get a dialogue going here. This is exactly the kind of stuff that the forum should be used for.

---

bonoismygawd
Class Officer
-----------------------------------

You wouldn't be running these events if it meant that you were probably going to lose money or not get anything out of it for the class.

You obviously did not hear about the 6 Flags Tickets mishap.

I personally like to refer to us as the scapegoats of the class of 2007. Because that is basically our main function. If anyone has a complaint, they can tie it to our unaptitude and lay the blame on us. Prom is a joke. It is just an excuse for 4 people to do the impossible: make 100 other people all happy. But all we really want to do IS make people happy. So addressing our class' concerns is key to our positions. Sure, our power to change the world can only extend so far, but ofcourse we do what we can to make things happen, pull some strings and whatnot. Major changes are not our department; we're here for the welfare of our class and Student Advisory Council is supposed to voice our issues.

I dont find anything wrong with getting money for our class. We want to make highschool somewhat memorable, through events like Prom and Senior Events and all the random class trips we do. It breaks up the monotony that is Quaboag.

And we do do the Food Drive...or attempt it atleast...its not really our fault if it doesnt rake in anything...but you cant say that thats selfish or anything, it doesnt get us money.

I really dont know where I'm going with this...but it is amusing...

[No friction dancing.]

Thanks QED. Hopefully other people get the idea and start actually communicating.

"You obviously did not hear about the 6 Flags Tickets mishap."

I didn't say that it was impossible to lose money. I just said that it wasn't your objective

I'm agreeing that your intent is to make people happy. But even still, you have to acknowledge the fact that it's still just trying to make your class happy. Once 2007 hits, you guys have done your job. Kids that are in seventh grade right now aren't going to say, "Wow, prom was awesome this year!" You're affecting like 100 kids out of around 600.

One more thing. Just because something isn't your department, and something isn't your job, doesn't mean that you shouldn't get involved in it. You yourself said that you're just four people trying to make 100 people happy. You said that the SAC should handle all of the big issues. Isn't the SAC something like 5 people trying to make over 600 people happy?

[Shep]

Don't forget, class officers are just that. Class officers. As former treasurer and VP for '07, I know that it can be difficult just to get the 100 and change people in the class to get involved. That is primarily the realm of the class officers, to run class activities, etc. Student Council and Student Advisory Council are the ones who are supposed to be dealing with school-wide issues. Not saying the class officers shouldn't get involved, they should, but they can't do it all.

[No friction dancing.]

First off, you are using the same argument. That that's your job or that's not your job. You say that it's difficult to get a hundred people involved. It is. That's not the point. How about trying to get 600 people involved and trying to get them to have school spirit. Then, try to do good service projects for the community. Service projects that actually take time, money and effort. Food drives don't cut it. You throw some boxes in the cafeteria, and the rest is basically taken care of. Next, let's assume that you also have to do fundraising. Let's just assume that you need hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year. Let's just assume that you're not going to spend that money on a prom, or a trip to six flags, though. Let's assume that you're going to take all that money and spend it so you can go to conferences and sit there so you can learn to be a better leader and do better things for your school. But let's not assume that it's just your school. Let's say that you have commitments to your school, but also your region, the state, and the entire country. Not just pseudo commitments, either. Commitments that take time and energy. Now let's just say that you get no thanks for your job, in fact, you get reamed out twice as much as any class officer. Whenever anybody recognizes your hard work, it's to criticize it.

The point that I'm trying to make (probably unsuccessfully) is that you can do more than what you're doing right now, even if it's not in your job description. BTW, look at the Student Council's constitution some time. The Student Council actually isn't around to deal with school wide issues. We just do it because we care about the school. We take time out of our "job" to do all that stuff.

[No friction dancing.]

Does anybody have anything else to say about this, or should I just take it that you've all conceded that the student council is the most hard working?

[bonoismygawd]

ha. don't kid yourself darling.

[Shep]

Advertar, I know that you of course have the most important and most difficult in the school. I know that your student council tackles all the major problems of the world and are just the most awesome people in the whole school.

That said, you don't, and it doesn't (but they kinda are). I'm not putting you down for trying to make a difference. I want to make a difference too. I do stuff outside of school for service all the time. As SAC, its our job to try to improve the school from a more administrative standpoint, as we meet with teachers, parents, and Mr. Collins to try to set the direction of the school. The only student interaction I have in this role is to get the general sentiment of the class so I can represent them accurately in the meetings. Raising $5,000 and doing some incredible service project with it isn't exactly something that we can, or should, do.

School service projects should come from the students. Student council should be involved. So should class officers. SAC can be intermediary between students and administration. But in the end ideas should come from the students, and school-wide issues like major service projects should fall to the school-wide student gov't, student council.

Class officers should work to organize class service projects. They can work together with student council on things. But you can't honestly expect them to do their own job and then take on yours. Big school-wide stuff is for StuCo, class-level stuff should fall to the class government.

[Shep]

Sry for double post...

As to your workload, I have three words. Not. Even. Close.

You guys organize training conference visits for yourselves, etc. Don't even try to pass this off as work towards your total responsibilities. Although you bring your ideas back to the school, its primarily the training of StuCo members, organized by StuCo members, and primarily benefits StuCo. Internal matters like this don't count if you're comparing workloads.

Look at winter carnival. StuCo organizes the events, plans the schedule, gets approval from administration, and notifies the classes and students. Officers then coordinate their class efforts, collecting all the scavenger hunt stuff, planning strategy, organizing the creation of the banner, etc. And before you write this off as self-serving (like your training stuff), remember that you are running the carnival for the good of your constituancy, the school, and the officers are doing their work for the good of their constituants, the members of their class.

Most school-wide stuff you organize requires student participation, and the class officers frequently are the ones left to organize the students and motivate them to participate. Then, on top of helping with your events, they have to deal with prom, trips, etc. in addition to the fundraising (which both groups do, I know).

My point is,

[glow=red,2,300]YOU LOSE[/glow]

You aren't the only one working hard.

[No friction dancing.]

I guess that you bring up a valid (albeit heretical) point about the fact that the student council is the only group that can really do schoolwide service projects. The SAC should be the ones making the school policies. But then it isn't fair to ask the student council to help make policy, and to help out individual classes. And yet sometimes we have to take a role in that, whether we want to or not. So if I can't expect them to do their own job and then take on mine, then I shouldn't have to fill in the gaps when they aren't doing their jobs. That's the issue. I realize that different officers have different jobs. And that's my point. [shadow=red,left,300] [glow=red,2,300] Do your job.[/glow][/shadow]

[Shep]

What do you do that has anything to do with the class officers' jobs?

[No friction dancing.]

Furthermore, (and I don't apologize for the double post) as far as the Winter Carnival goes, you guys have fun doing that. That brings me back to one of my earlier points. We are planning for months, do bring you events, so you can have fun. Trust me when I say that it is a lot more fun to try and organize who is bringing what for a scavenger hunt than it is counting pennies for around six hours a day for a week and a half. Don't tell me that you're suffering. You're benefitting from our hard work. Your class is competing for money that the student council helped raise. So we're helping you, and not getting much in return.

[No friction dancing.]

And I'd also like to address the whole convention thing. Conventions really are about learning how to lead, and they're not supposed to be fun or self-serving. And I can't speak for everybody in the student council *cough*Scott*cough*cough* but it ends up being a lot of work for me. I don't go to the conventions and meet girls from other schools. I go and put on workshops for other students. And I don't know if you've ever put on a workshop before, but they takes months of work. OR, if you're like me, you plan them on the bus ride to the school that's holding the convention. But that's irrelevent...The point is that what we do might not look like a lot of work on paper, but it is in real life. And I realize that no matter what office you hold, whether it's SAC or Class Officer, that everybody underestimates the amount of work you do. I just wanted to open up an awesome dialogue about that, and so far I think that we've done that. Let's keep the lines open. Does anybody have any other opinions?

[bonoismygawd]

I have this hunch that basically anything i say will be censored because all i have to contribute can be composed out of entirely four-lettered words.

but Adolph [Admin! Please ban me for my foul mouth!]ing Hitler Mofo, I could seriously kick you right now Gregg.

[Jesus]

instead of... oh i don't know... 30 consecutive posts... click your friendly lil modify post button, type below what u just said

**edit**

and another thing... (rant here)

unless someone has posted after you, you don't need to post again, just add onto your post. that way it is coherent with a point counterpoint format. otherwise i read advertar's point, scroll down, read advertar's point, scroll down and read advertar's point again. if somoene makes one giant, compiled post and you want to respond to it, quote them and break it up so its point counterpoint.

or not, i could care less.

more importantly

gregg said:

And I can't speak for everybody in the student council *cough*Scott*cough*cough* but it ends up being a lot of work for me. I don't go to the conventions and meet girls from other schools.

I'd like to enter into evidence Exhibits A, B and C. A and B being the rewards of governement, and C being the rewards of meeting a girl instead of governing.

A: www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/clinton/lewinskyclose.jpg

B: www.evote.com/evotepix/events/demconvention2000/sen_ted_kennedy_of_ma_speech.jpg

C: myspace-133.vo.llnwd.net/00345/33/12/345222133_l.jpg

try not to knock people's personal lives, riding the pony isn't exactly serving quaboag either.